Book of James vs. Books of Paul
Here is a good topic for reflection and feedback:
James 2: 14-20:
James says: If you are saved you have good works,
if you have no good works, you are not saved.
Paul in Ephesians 2:1-9:
Paul says: You are saved by Grace and nothing else.
Questions:
1) What is a good work and how is it good if it is what you should have done in the first place?
2) Where does Jesus command good works?
3) Jesus does command to love and act in love to others; is this the same as a good work?
4) By James emphasizing good works doesn't that make these works of the flesh?
5) If Jesus said: "do them in secret and dont let your right hand know what the left is doing", then why does James proudly proclaim; "I'LL SHOW YOU MY WORKS"?
Our commentary:
Are you part of the Church?
Is James writing to the Church? No! (James 1:1)
Was Paul writing to the Church? Yes!
Then why are you trying to reconcile the two? James had no intent on writing to you, unless you have a family tree that traces you all the way back to one of Jacob's 12 sons.
Where does James get the authority to write Scripture? If our Lord often skips the oldest son in the Old Testament and gives the birthright to a younger sibling, then what makes you think that James' position as the 1st oldest half-brother of Jesus will be honored?
Did Jesus personally call Paul? Did Jesus call James?
Paul killed Christians and Jesus called Paul. James grew up with Jesus and knew Him his entire life and Jesus NEVER called him.
It would have been much easier to call James and have him follow Jesus while Jesus was here instead of having to blind Paul on the road side and send him to the other disciples...right?
James comes to Him with His mother and Jesus says: "who are my brothers and my mother?" (Mark 3:33)
Whom does Jesus find worthy of his time...Paul or James?
On what basis is James' writing Scripture?
By what authority or right are men calling it equal or better than Paul's?
Technorati:bible study
posted by www.bibletruthonline.com at
11:12 AM
15 Comments:
Hi... this is a great post!
1) I think "good work" also means righteousness or righteous deeds. Which translates to our actions being upright and virtuous.
It is a question of morality and exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior. According to precepts God has given us.
What is a good work and how is it good if it is what you should have done in the first place? (www.bibletruthonline.com)
To answer your question it has clearly been tought in the Bible (Torah and New Testament) and The Qur'an (Final Testament) that there are Good and Bad, Righteous and Evil; Halal and Haram in this life. So the scriptures must identify what is Good otherwise we will not know!
It says in the Qur'an that the station of human development for those who do good works is different than those who do not:
"Not equal are the blind and those who (clearly) see: Nor are (equal) those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and those who do evil. Little do ye learn by admonition!" (40:58)
It also says in the Qur'an that the degree for those who do good works is better than those who do not.
"Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures" (98:7).
By
Abu Sahajj, at 8:59 AM
Did you realize that your blog is showing your posts in reverse chronological order?
Almost gave me a heart attack when I saw that big storm (Katrina) in the gulf.
By
CyberCelt, at 5:35 PM
I too find ample fuel for thoughtful reflection in comparing and contrasting James' epistles with Paul's; however, I've never looked upon these as being in conflict.
James said we not by faith alone are we saved, and he said that faith lacking works is dead.
Paul said that only by the grace of God and not by our own works are we saved--lest any man should boast.
If we pay close attention these passages...and indeed all of their epistiles, you will see that neither Paul nor James said that the *only* thing one must do is have faith (after all, the demons have unshakeable faith..and they tremble).
Similarly, neither Paul nor James said that the *only* things *anyone* must do are works. Paul rightly affirms that one's own works can do nothing. James rightly affirms that if one has faith but exercises no will to practice it, then that faith hss no power to save.
Regarding your questions:
>>Where does James get the authority to write Scripture?
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One does not need *any* authority to *write* the pwrod pf God. Ballam's donkey prophesied. He had no authority. The question is, who has the authority to recognize what is and isn't the Word of God."
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If our Lord often skips the oldest son in the Old Testament and gives the birthright to a younger sibling, then what makes you think that James' position as the 1st oldest half-brother of Jesus will be honored?
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Ballam's donkey did nothing to have the honor of speaking for God. It simply spoke. James' physical relationship to Jesus is irrelevant. He simply wrote. Likewise for Paul's.
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Paul killed Christians and Jesus called Paul. James grew up with Jesus and knew Him his entire life and Jesus NEVER called him.
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Who said Jesus never called James? I don't see that in scripture.
Regardless, Jesus said, "All that the Father gives to me shall come to me; and he that cometh unto me, I will in no wise cast out." James came to Jesus -- and all who come to him are called.
>> It would have been much easier to call James and have him follow Jesus while Jesus was here instead of having to blind Paul on the road side and send him to the other disciples...right?
James comes to Him with His mother and Jesus says: "who are my brothers and my mother?" (Mark 3:33)
Whom does Jesus find worthy of his time...Paul or James?
---------
Again, who said Jesus didn't call James? You neglected to note Jesus's answer to his own question: "Those who do the will of my Father..." He didn't say that James, Mary and his other relatives did not do so. As for who Jesus found "worthy' of his time, the answer seems to be that none are worthy, but all may partake of it. See both the epistle to the Romans and John chapter 3 for perspective.
>> On what basis is James' writing Scripture?
By what authority or right are men calling it equal or better than Paul's?
I've posted some related comments to someone's blog called "Crossed the Tiber." Please look them up if you're inclined.
With peace,
--Theo
By
Theo, at 3:19 PM
This is a wonderfully thought-provoking blog!
I'd like to take a humble try at addressing your questions.
1) What is a good work and how is it good if it is what you should have done in the first place?
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This actually is not one, but two questions.
1a) What is a good work?
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That is a GREAT question!
I believe Jesus gave us insight here. When critics addressed him as "good teacher," Jesus asked why he should be called "good." Only the Father in Heaven is "good." We see that whatever the Father does is good, regardless of the means by which He does it. From this we must recognize that only those works that the Father wills are "good" works.
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1b) How is it good if it is what you should have done in the first place?
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This question, unfortunately, has a logical flaw. Within the question itself is the premise that "doing what you should do" is *not* good. Yet "doing what we should do (the Father's will)" is the very definition of "doing good."
2) Where does Jesus command good works?
Read the story of the "rich young ruler," who asked, "What must I do to be saved?" Note that what keeps him from salvation is not his lack of faith, but his refusal to do what God wills him to do at that time.
3) Jesus does command to love and act in love to others; is this the same as a good work?
The acts are good provided they are done in submission to the Father's will. Refer to Jesus' parable of the two sons who were commanded by their father to work. One said "yes," but did not go and work as he was commanded. The other said "no" but soon repented and went off to do as his father commanded. Which of these did the father's will?
4) By James emphasizing good works doesn't that make these works of the flesh?
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Nope.
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5) If Jesus said: "do them in secret and dont let your right hand know what the left is doing", then why does James proudly proclaim; "I'LL SHOW YOU MY WORKS"?
----
I was unaware that James wrote that in pride (or in all caps). Regardless, you've lifted out a portion of a sentence and prsented it as if it were the entire thought, and further you removed it from its context. James was comparing two doctrines... The idea is show me your "faith without works" (which one can not actually see) and I'll show you my "works that demonstrate my faith" (which one can see). Clearly James is not displaying his good works (Note that he does not list any works he has done.). He *is* saying that unless one's faith motivates good works, that faith cannot be seen and it has no effect. It is faith, but it is not "living" faith-- it is, as James writes, "dead."
With humble respect,
--Theo
By
Theo, at 7:00 AM
Hello Theo-
Interesting comments...but I do have a problem with a few of them. Yes the contrasts between Paul and James do fuel much thought but I beleive clarity is key to understanding this topic.
You said:
"If we pay close attention these passages...and indeed all of their epistiles, you will see that neither Paul nor James said that the *only* thing one must do is have faith (after all, the demons have unshakeable faith..and they tremble)."
There are 2 problems with this statement:
1)Paul very well does make clear that FAITH ALONE is what justifies us NOT WORKS in Romans 3:26-31 and Ephesians 2:8,9. Paul actually states that if you are trying to do good works/obey the law in order to be saved it is counted against you as debt owed, Romans 4:1-8. Then he goes on to explain that grace is offered to the uncircumcised by faith, Romans 4:9-16. James on the other hand sent spies in to see if Paul was circumcised when he went to Jerusalem to bring him under the bondage of the law, Galatians 2:1-5. You see the works James is talking about are not just charitable deeds but also works of the law. James wont eat with people who are not under the law nor will he preach to them. James commites Paul to the Gentiles and will only preach to those who have been circumcised, Galatian 2:9-13. James is trying to put new wine in old wine skins which Jesus said do not mix. Paul then addresses this and makes very clear it is NOT BY WORKS (nor works plus faith) but by faith only that we are justified, Galatians 2:14-21 (these are the same works James is talking about). Then in Ch. 3 he explains that we receive the Holy Spirit by the hearing of FAITH and that the purpose of the law is to bring us to Christ by FAITH.
Yes, you will have good works if the Spirit of God dwells in you, but not because you mustered them up on your own. If you do good works in order to justify yourself then it is counted as debt. So why is James going to say "I'll show you my works"? If God's Spirit dwells in you then STOP WORRYING ABOUT DOING GOOD WORKS. If you abide in Christ HE, NOT YOU, will produce the fruit.
2) No the demons certainly do not have unshakeable faith! Where is this in the Bible? James says they beleive there is one God and tremble. This is not the same as faith. Walking by Faith (faith-ing) is an action not simply belief. Faith = an Action based upon a belief in God's Word which is sustained by trust/confidence in Him. This is the faith that Abraham had that was accounted to him for righteousness as Paul argues in both Romans and Galatians. Abraham believed and acted upon that beleif, trusting that what God said would come true. James on the other hand twists scripture and calls this action a work. Abraham was willing to slay Isaac because he knew that God would have to immediately raise him from the dead because of His promise to him, Hebrews 11:17-19. This was not a good work, it was a test of his trust in God. Again James twists scripture saying Rahab the harlot was justified by works. She didn't "send them out another way" as James says...she hid them and then lied. What was her works? Prostitution and lying? NO! She was justified by her faith in what she was told by the messengers.
You said:
"Who said Jesus never called James? I don't see that in scripture."
James didn't believe in Jesus as Messiah until after His resurrection. He never followed Jesus during His ministry or listened to His teachings. It wasn't until 17 years after being leader of the Church in Jerusalem that James confesses Jesus is the only way to heaven after being questioned by the Pharisees. Then he is martyred for his confession. Jesus never personally called him hat anytime to take over the Jerusalem Church, he just assumed the position by Middle Eastern tradition.
"James came to Jesus -- and all who come to him are called."
This is true. We are not saying James was never saved. But Paul was called to be an apostle (Romans 1:1, 1 and 2 Corinthians 1:1, Galtians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, etc). Paul was the 13th apostle, after Matthias. I think someone who was personally called by Jesus to be an apostle and taken up into heaven to have a full understanding of the Gospel revealed to him would have more authority in his message than someone who assumes a position of leadership by man's tradition.
This such a large topic, it can't be fully covered in one sitting, so keep the comments coming. I look forward to more dialogue with you on this topic.
By
Adam Bomb, at 10:27 PM
Thanks for replying, Adam.
As I review our conversation thus far, and as I read more of this blog site, I (unfortunately) conclude that we aren't likely to make much headway.
I'm afraid that as I try to grasp the cogency of your presentation, I find I lack the skill to follow it.
To illustrate an example of my difficulty: I read where you defined Faith: "Faith = an Action based upon a belief in God's Word which is sustained by trust/confidence in Him."
James' view is that faith without action is still faith, albeit, dead faith. I understand you to say that faith without action isn't faith at all. As near as I can tell, you've outdone James. Yet I know you stress "faith alone." I end up rather lost.
Please do accept my humble apologies for my difficulty in overcoming my limitations. Alas, I perceive that if we continue, I will risk sinning against you and Our Lord through my pride, presumption and arrogance.
With sincere and prayerful thanks, I humbly ask your forgiveness.
Theo
Pax vobis tu.
By
Theo, at 1:06 AM
Theo-
Hello again! I really appreciate your comments...let me "in humility" address your comment...
1a) What is a good work?
"I believe Jesus gave us insight here. When critics addressed him as "good teacher," Jesus asked why he should be called "good." Only the Father in Heaven is "good." We see that whatever the Father does is good, regardless of the means by which He does it. From this we must recognize that only those works that the Father wills are "good" works."
That is the best answer that we have received on a blog post yet. In essence...your answer is what we were getting at and the reason for the blog post. TOO MANY look at good works to bring faith, always talking about James and never mentioning Paul...and the reverse...too many look at faith and speak of no good works.
Again, great answer...GOD BLESS
dirige nos Domine
By
John H, at 10:06 AM
Theo-
Yes great answer! Doing the Father's will in submission and humility is the only true "good" we can do. We can definitley agree on that point. Doing His will is good...but maybe according to Jesus, not "profitable"? Would you agree to that in light of Luke 17:6-10? But maybe profit is not the point, obedience is. And it is obedience that makes the work good.
Looking forward to any further comments you may have on this verse.....
By
Adam Bomb, at 9:14 PM
Theo-
May I ask, out of an honest seeking for truth and understanding, ask what you believe faith to be? How would you define faith?
John H
By
John H, at 10:41 PM
Paul was a false apostle. Jesus did teach to do good works...revelation says the church that is lukewarm in works will be spewed out of his mouth...you have to be hot or cold. Christ taught our righteousness must be more than the pharisees if we want to get into heaven and Paul was a pharisee. I blog about these points on my page, with references.
By
return to righteousness, at 4:37 PM
return to righteousness-
Your blog post on your page is a joke. I love how you twist Jesus' words because you do not understand them. I also didn't see a place for comments on that post...was that on purpose?
There are so many problems with your argument because your perspective is completely off. Let me explain one....
You say that Paul isnt the 13th Apostle. Really? Aren't there 13 tribes? No? Why dont you count them! There are 12 land divisions + Levi. Remember Joseph is taken out and his two sons are put in. The bible only lists the tribes in sets of 12, but there are 13. In the 144,000 in Revelation notice Dan is missing...Ephraim is also but Joseph is put in and Levi is put in...every list of 12 in Old and New Testament is different, someone is always taken out.
There are 13 tribes...
there are 13 Apostles...
...and just because in the New Jerusalem in Revelation (as you pointed out) it says 12 foundations...there are really 13 Apostles (My guess is that Matthias is taken out and Paul is put in).
So yes you are right Mathias DID take Judas' place AND Paul is 13. Judas is taken out just like Joseph is taken out...his two sons are put in, just like Matthias and Paul are put back in.
Being number 13 by no means disqualifies him.
Try reading past the surface and maybe you would understand all of this. Remember God says, "MY WAYS ARE NOT YOUR WAYS."
Check out our lesson on this to see more examples of 13: http://www.bibletruthonline.com/thirteen.htm
This is only one of many errors in your blog post...shall I pick out another?
By
Adam Bomb, at 11:18 PM
rtr-
Jesus calls Laodicea "lukewarm" but where do you see the word "works"?
I think you're jumping to your own conclusions.
By
Anonymous, at 11:22 PM
Paul wasn't ordained an apostle (mat 10)
Paul didn't qualify to be an apostle (acts 1:16-26)
Paul gave PROVEN false gospel (1 cor 15:4-6) when he tells us that Christ was seen by the 12 after he rose.....Judas had died. Matthew, Mark and luke all talk of 11 not 12 like paul!
Paul's conversion story is caught in a lie as there are 2 versions of it. One is found in acts 22 the other in acts 26. If you have a red letter bible, you can actually see the red words telling 2 different stories!
Paul tells us its ok to break commandments, when psalm 11 says they are forever and ever.
By
return to righteousness, at 5:38 AM
RTR-
Thank you for your comment!
You said: "Paul wasn't ordained an apostle (mat 10)"
Matt 10 names the ORIGINAL 12 apostles who are also known as "The Twelve"? Are you telling me that all of the other apostles with Paul (1 Cor 15:7) aren't apostles either? I suggest getting a dictionary and looking up the word "apostle" and then researching the history of the title "the Twelve" as named in Matt 10. This will un-cover this truth for you.
2. You said:"Paul didn't qualify to be an apostle (acts 1:16-26)"
Matthias was chosen by the other 11 apostles who were MEN by drawing straws. This was not The Lords choice who already ascended into heaven at this time. The 11 might have thought they were doing the right thing...but the Lord never told them to draw straws between Matthias and Barsabbas. The Lord chose someone Himself...Saul...there is a great lesson to learn here. Regardless, "the Twelve" accepted Paul...where did Matthias go and what did he ever do? Matthias didn't do anything that I know of. Matthias is the mystery here...that guy man should have never become part of :the Twelve". Bad choice by men using their human wills to choose for the Lord...The Lord chose His own man for the job...Saul.
3.You said:
"Paul gave PROVEN false gospel (1 cor 15:4-6) when he tells us that Christ was seen by the 12 after he rose.....Judas had died. Matthew, Mark and luke all talk of 11 not 12 like paul!"
If anything Paul used their title "the twelve" and I have always thought this was a translation error. By your thinking and with an even closer literary translation there is now 13 apostles...Peter and the twelve!
Look again: (1 Cor 15:5 KJV)
5 He was seen by Peter and then by the twelve apostles.
PETER + 12 APOSTLES = 13
Another translation has this verse as:
"And that he was seen by Cephas, and after that by the eleven."
Latin:
"Et quia visus est Cephae et post haec undecim"
Link:
http://www.newadvent.org/bible/1co015.htm
"The Twelve" was their ordinary TITLE, even when their number was not twelve actual people.
4.
You said:"Paul's conversion story is caught in a lie as there are 2 versions of it. One is found in acts 22 the other in acts 26. If you have a red letter bible, you can actually see the red words telling 2 different stories!"
Again using your thinking...in reality there are 3 versions. You forgot to mention Acts chapter 9. The words of Christ (in RED) in all three chapters, ACTS 9, 22 , and 26 have the words of Christ in the beginning EXACTLY the same..."Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" This would strengthen Paul's story more than weaken it. But none of this really highlights the fact that PAUL DID NOT WRITE THE BOOK OF ACTS. Who did? It is the same author of the gospel of Luke...and this author is using different sources for the story. To me, I appreciate the work that the writer of Acts did...because all three chapters give me a better grasp on the conversion of Saul, and the miracle of Christs ascension and our Lord actually talking to Saul! I want to know what our Lord said to Saul and I have three very similar versions in Acts.
5. You said:
"Paul tells us its ok to break commandments, when psalm 11 says they are forever and ever."
The Bible tells us if we brake even one of the Ten Commandments we are guilty of it all. God's commanded Moses to write these in stone so that the Jews would know exactly what to do if they wanted to reach heaven...but fell short...very short. If adherance to the commandments is what matters...then why...why..would the only Begotten Son of God have to come down to this dirt pile...suffer...be ridiculed...tortured...and hung on a cross for us? Have you reached the truth that the voice that gave Moses the 10 Commandments is the same Creator that came and came to us and lived in a tent of flesh with the name Jesus? Live by the Law...die by the law...Believe in Jesus and have eternal life outside of the Law. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father..
Matt 5:20
20 "For I say to you, that unless your righeousness exceeds
righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."
That means you don't even have a chance without HIM. Thank God for Paul's reminder...and he was even a strict enforcer of The Law..rejoice if you are Born Again that you will not die by the Law.
God Bless.
By
John H, at 11:08 PM
John-
Yes I wonder if Paul was even around when Luke wrote the book of Acts.
RTR-
What is it exactly you dont like about Paul's message? Did you have a problem with verse 3 and 4 of 1 Cor. 15 or just verse 5? If your problem is just with verse 5 than you've missed the point.
Have you been Born Again by the Spirit as Jesus spoke of in John 3? If not then you better ask yourself what you are doing because you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. If you have been Born Again, then you should be able to appreciate Paul's message of living by the Spirit as a son of God and how Jesus has redeemed us from the Law to live a life of righteousness by faith in HIS work.
If you do not understand Paul, then you cant understand the difference between new wine and old wineskins. Jesus' teachings will also seem to be legalism while completely missing the point he was making. Jesus pointed to the Law to show us the need for His grace through the cross (which Paul teaches, not James) as He was the fullfilment of the Law. Paul is teaching new wine and James is trying to put new wine in old wineskins which, as Jesus said, doesn't work.
You can't follow the Law and Jesus at the same time. Either one or the other. The Law brings death, but Jesus came that we may have Life and have it more abundantly through the power of His Resurrection.
By
Adam Bomb, at 8:39 PM
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