Jesus is the head of any church
Request for Prayer and Comment
Doug Collins
Jan 11, 2007
I don't expect many to agree with what I am about to say but I challenge you to pray about it. I am not proposing this as anything more than a 'Request for Comment". Do not think I am trying to PUSH this as a doctrine. Rather, this is to challange our tradional thinking and query God about it to see if it lines up with God.
First let me say. I am not a pastor or a board member and I have never had any problems with my local church!
In an organization who do you report to? The person who can fire you right? When it comes down to it anyone who has power to fire you is your boss. If you want to keep your job you must come under the authority of your boss right?
So who does a pastor report to? Most pastors can be fired by a board of men. Which means the pastor is coming under the authority of men. In fact, if God tells the pastor to do something big, does the pastor not have to then get the approval of the board? This structure cannot be pleasing to God. Woe to the man that votes against something God has told a pastor to do. Heck that goes way beyond the grumbling we read about in Numbers 12:
1 Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite.
2 "Has the LORD spoken only through Moses?" they asked. "Hasn't he also spoken through us?" And the LORD heard this.
3 (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)
4 At once the LORD said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, "Come out to the Tent of Meeting, all three of you." So the three of them came out.
5 Then the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the Tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them stepped forward,
6 he said, "Listen to my words: "When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions,I speak to him in dreams.
7 But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house.
8 With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?"
9 The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them.
10 When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriam—leprous, [a] like snow. Aaron turned toward her and saw that she had leprosy;
11 and he said to Moses, "Please, my lord, do not hold against us the sin we have so foolishly committed.
12 Do not let her be like a stillborn infant coming from its mother's womb with its flesh half eaten away."
Is there no fear of God anymore? Do you suppose you serve a different God? The fact that you are not struck down in punishment is far worse because it means God has given you over the rulership you have chose. That of man. Yes we are to obey the rules of man (goverment and all those in authority over us) but only when it does not conflict with God as we see in Acts 5:28-29
"We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."
29Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!
The only person biblically that a pastor should be answering to is God's apostles. And if a man is to call himself an apostle should he not have at a minimum signs, wonders, and healings confirming that even believers should be bearing this fruit?
Who is the head of the church? Jesus? YES!
The reason we have setup this structure is a statement of negative faith. In essence we are saying to God; "We don't trust that you can run your church. Jesus, we don't trust you to hire and fire through the working of your Spirit. We have decided to fix your Kingdom and make it a democracy. Our leader will report to us, not God. Oh yes, he can hear from God, but then we will use our board to approve or disapprove what You told him."
In fact I would go so far as to say that we have made Jesus the symbolic head of the church much the same as the Queen of England. The real decisions are made by the board. If you want the real Kingdom of Jesus you must also accept the King FULLY!
I am not saying anything against Elders or thier role. It just does not include over-ruling a pastor.
The biblical authority structure of the church (simplified for this discussion) seems to be:
Jesus
Apostles
Pastor
Elders
Believers
Yet we have Believers choosing the Board, the Board choosing the Pastor and the pastor not submitting to any Apostles. Seems broken to me. Suggestions anyone?
No wonder we have such a hard time entering the Kingdom and getting our healing. We don't want to submit to it. We would rather submit to an organization of men, and of course, we get the result of rulership by men, a very non-miraculous Kingdom (or should I say democracy).
Doesn't this remind you a lot of the Israelites demanding a King when God wanted to be King? They didn't trust God's rulership. They would rather submit to a man's rulership, and not even that, because via demoncracy we even control him!!
OK. So now I have made a case for what is wrong. I invite everyone who reads this to pray and comment as Holy Spirit leads and I will publish the results. Do not comment unless you feel strongly Holy Spirits leading. I want this as pure as possible.
Please pray and reply with "in context" scripture
Technorati:church issues,current affairs,church-issues
Doug Collins
Jan 11, 2007
I don't expect many to agree with what I am about to say but I challenge you to pray about it. I am not proposing this as anything more than a 'Request for Comment". Do not think I am trying to PUSH this as a doctrine. Rather, this is to challange our tradional thinking and query God about it to see if it lines up with God.
First let me say. I am not a pastor or a board member and I have never had any problems with my local church!
In an organization who do you report to? The person who can fire you right? When it comes down to it anyone who has power to fire you is your boss. If you want to keep your job you must come under the authority of your boss right?
So who does a pastor report to? Most pastors can be fired by a board of men. Which means the pastor is coming under the authority of men. In fact, if God tells the pastor to do something big, does the pastor not have to then get the approval of the board? This structure cannot be pleasing to God. Woe to the man that votes against something God has told a pastor to do. Heck that goes way beyond the grumbling we read about in Numbers 12:
1 Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite.
2 "Has the LORD spoken only through Moses?" they asked. "Hasn't he also spoken through us?" And the LORD heard this.
3 (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)
4 At once the LORD said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, "Come out to the Tent of Meeting, all three of you." So the three of them came out.
5 Then the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the Tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them stepped forward,
6 he said, "Listen to my words: "When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions,I speak to him in dreams.
7 But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house.
8 With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?"
9 The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them.
10 When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriam—leprous, [a] like snow. Aaron turned toward her and saw that she had leprosy;
11 and he said to Moses, "Please, my lord, do not hold against us the sin we have so foolishly committed.
12 Do not let her be like a stillborn infant coming from its mother's womb with its flesh half eaten away."
Is there no fear of God anymore? Do you suppose you serve a different God? The fact that you are not struck down in punishment is far worse because it means God has given you over the rulership you have chose. That of man. Yes we are to obey the rules of man (goverment and all those in authority over us) but only when it does not conflict with God as we see in Acts 5:28-29
"We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."
29Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!
The only person biblically that a pastor should be answering to is God's apostles. And if a man is to call himself an apostle should he not have at a minimum signs, wonders, and healings confirming that even believers should be bearing this fruit?
Who is the head of the church? Jesus? YES!
The reason we have setup this structure is a statement of negative faith. In essence we are saying to God; "We don't trust that you can run your church. Jesus, we don't trust you to hire and fire through the working of your Spirit. We have decided to fix your Kingdom and make it a democracy. Our leader will report to us, not God. Oh yes, he can hear from God, but then we will use our board to approve or disapprove what You told him."
In fact I would go so far as to say that we have made Jesus the symbolic head of the church much the same as the Queen of England. The real decisions are made by the board. If you want the real Kingdom of Jesus you must also accept the King FULLY!
I am not saying anything against Elders or thier role. It just does not include over-ruling a pastor.
The biblical authority structure of the church (simplified for this discussion) seems to be:
Jesus
Apostles
Pastor
Elders
Believers
Yet we have Believers choosing the Board, the Board choosing the Pastor and the pastor not submitting to any Apostles. Seems broken to me. Suggestions anyone?
No wonder we have such a hard time entering the Kingdom and getting our healing. We don't want to submit to it. We would rather submit to an organization of men, and of course, we get the result of rulership by men, a very non-miraculous Kingdom (or should I say democracy).
Doesn't this remind you a lot of the Israelites demanding a King when God wanted to be King? They didn't trust God's rulership. They would rather submit to a man's rulership, and not even that, because via demoncracy we even control him!!
OK. So now I have made a case for what is wrong. I invite everyone who reads this to pray and comment as Holy Spirit leads and I will publish the results. Do not comment unless you feel strongly Holy Spirits leading. I want this as pure as possible.
Please pray and reply with "in context" scripture
Technorati:church issues,current affairs,church-issues
Labels: Church Issues, Church Problems
posted by www.bibletruthonline.com at
8:54 AM
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